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Terry underwood's avatar

I think Place is right. Wittgenstein’s 1923 treatise nailed the very thing this debate mirrors: Philosophical problems are artifacts of natural language, one reason bots are not the best at reasoning. Claude 3 Opus is horrible at solving truth tables for truth-functions. There is to much negation, which is a type of ambiguity. . Equivocation, ambiguity, puns, all these quirks in natural language create havoc when one intends one specific meaning for one specific thing. The mind is brain and nothing else, a structural ambiguity, could be true to one person but not to another, leading to recriminations and possibly fist to cuffs:) do you know about Word Grammar (WG) (cf: James Hudson). Word grammar is superordinate to syntax in that syntax is dependent on words in phrases. For example, a ship inherits information from oceangoing in the background in the same way that rowboat inherits information from river going, spreading activation to other abstract nodes of meaning that activate fishing or cargo or banks or waves. A noun isa noun is an inheritance relationship. So in word grammar a mind isa brain means that mind inherits information from brain in a semantic network. Here’s what interests me. In WG words can take affixes which alter the semantic network big time. Farm, for example, becomes farmer. In this case, farm might refer to Venus as morning star does, but farmer does not refer to the same Venus at all. Category error would start blinking red, yet if we take one step back these words (farm and farmer) are so tightly connected we really can’t have one without the other.. We can have a minder that becomes a reminder, but we can’t have a farmer that becomes a refarmer. Inheritance properties of farm is very different from mind in level of abstraction. But brain is concrete while mind is abstract. We can remind but we can’t rebrain. We can be thoughtful and mindful but we can’t be brainful. Each suffix is a syntactic signal that pushes the word toward a nuanced inheritance. Although in the end I think Place is right, I don’t think it’s the end of the argument.

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Prudence Louise's avatar

Another good article with clear explanation.

My main objection is that all the so-called “reasons” to think identity theory is true, merely assume their conclusion. It doesn’t address the hard problem that consciousness transcends any appeal to structure and function. Physics doesn’t include the properties of mass, dimension, charge and …. pain.

Physics deals in quantitative properties, experience is pure qualitative. That divide between quantity and quality can’t be bridged by more correlations. That’s far more than different layers of abstraction.

We’re physical beings therefore consciousness is physical doesn’t address the fact that consciousness doesn’t have any properties we think of as physical.

The appeal to evolution doesn’t explain what consciousness is or it’s place in the world, it only says it’s useful so ifff it’s physical it’s likely to selected.

And mind brain correlations are a statement of the problem, not a reason to prefer any solution.

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