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Wyrd Smythe's avatar

Another great entry in your series! Your other guests have made some strong points. I'll say up front that, while I've only encountered the Churchlands on other blogs, I've never made much sense of their approach.

Ultimately, I think if group A thinks looking in place X is best, and group B thinks looking in place Y is best, why don't both pursue their respective ideas (and leave each other alone)? I think science involves testing all possible branches of reality. And I have a general objection to theories that claim other (apparently effective) theories are wrong. Deconstruction is easy. I think it's what you construct that matters. Theories with better constructions win.

For me, the argument hinges too much on "folk psychology" and possibly begs its own question by defining folk psychology conveniently (i.e. that it is necessarily inept). Firstly, I think, at least among the educated, folk understanding converges on scientific understanding. Secondly, folk understanding is built not just on our own lifetime of observation and correlation, but on the reports of others and from the whole body of literature. In some people, the predictive ability is acute, demonstrating the effectiveness of the theory. Folk theory being partial needn't invalidate the observational data it's based on. Folk medicine got lots wrong, but the illnesses and injuries are real enough. Nor do I think it necessary to assume a folk theory is the *only* theory. Newton coexists with Einstein just fine as NASA. Ptolemy *still* works for simple astronomy.

With theories there also seems the issue of falsification. Ice cream consumption causing sunburn is easily falsified. How does one falsify the theory that my subjective experience is other than it seems to me. "What it is like" to be human *is* that subjective experience. We may come to understand it better, may associate neural correlates with it, but that doesn't change the uniqueness of a material system experienced from within as well as from without. How can we deny /cogito ergo sum/ when it's the closest thing to a true fact in our existence?

I think your question about what it means to say "I believe" is right on point. If I'm delighted by a movie or annoyed by a wasp, the labels "delighted" and "annoyed" are grounded in subjective experience and the recorded human experience of millennia. We may come to understand these better, completely unpack them in terms of neurophysics, but the effective theory of human experience seems too well documented to be based on an illusion. As you touched on in a comment reply, there may be forever an epistemic gap when it comes to subjectivity. Perhaps it just boils down to 'this is what it is like to be a brain structure' -- subjectivity emerges. Maybe a bit like being able to explain everything about water, except why it's so much fun to swim in it.

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Tina Lee Forsee's avatar

"Should we start with experiences themselves and assume these are true and undeniable? Or do we start with empirical evidence and assume experiences are a type of evidence that can be measured, tested, and analysed?"

I take phenomenal experience as the primary datum in need of explanation, which would mean eliminating it is the opposite of empirical. (But my understanding of the word, 'empirical', is probably different from what people mean by it today. It once meant 'verified by experience'—experience!—but now it seems to mean 'reducible to the quantifiable' or some such thing. To be honest, I'm not even sure what people mean by it anymore. Science-y?)

Anyway, to answer your question, I don't see why we can't have both. Science can go on looking for the neural correlates of consciousness (if that's what it's still doing) so long as it doesn't claim to be doing more than it actually is and so long as it doesn't reduce the phenomenal to the point of making it disappear (especially when this translates to popular articles in science magazines telling people their experienced reality is an illusion). In the particular case of consciousness where science isn't equipped to address phenomenal reality head on, it seems likely to hit a brick wall. Unless, of course, it adapts its methodology. What do you think?

BTW:

"In everyday language, begging the question is sometimes mistakenly used to mean raising the question. But this is a misuse of the term in philosophical discussions."

Hallelujah! I don't know why, but the popular use of 'begging the question' drives me nuts. I should be more understanding, I suppose. Especially since it doesn't matter all that much.

Also, another aside, I'd love to hear what you would make of this weird case (which you've probably heard of), and which theory of mind you think is best equipped to deal with it:

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(07)61127-1/fulltext

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