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Mike Smith's avatar

When it comes to communicating with aliens, I suspect when we finally do encounter them, we'll discover how impoverished our imagination has been on what forms life can take. We all live in the same universe with the same laws of physics, but those laws probably allow wider variation than we can imagine based on our experience of one biosphere.

But I think the Pioneer plaque isn't aiming to communicate with just any lifeform, but one that has managed to build their own civilization, in some manner close to how we define "civilization." That implies a level of selection to get to that point, one that it's hard to imagine happening without some form of symbolic thought and communication, or at least the ability to recognize significant patterns. But I am aware that even saying that may reveal a poverty of imagination.

I see the grounding of internal representations being about causal chains, from the represented to the representation, and the way it's used by the system to act toward the represented. To me, that's what Searle overlooks. That this is an issue for both engineered and evolved systems. There's nothing about individual neurons or even neural circuits that have meaning. They only have that meaning as part of their larger causal context. The same is true for code running in a computer system.

Interesting discussion, as always Suzi!

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Wyrd Smythe's avatar

Ah, cliff-hanger ending. Just as it getting good! 😄

Other comments have touched on excellent points, so I'll just tender some random thoughts that occurred to me while reading…

The odds of any putative alien species finding the Pioneer probes (or the Voyager probes with their Golden Records) are about as close to nil as can be. Space isn't just big or even huge, it's vast beyond comprehension. Pioneer 10 is ~136 AU; Pioneer 11 is ~115 AU. Voyager 1 is the most distant at ~167 AU, and Voyager 2 is ~140 AU. For reference, the Oort cloud surrounding the Solar system extends from 1,000 AU to over 100,000 AU. So, all four probes have barely left the neighborhood. They have many millions of years before they'll reach the closest stars.

One thing about the Solar system diagram: Saturn's rings aren't forever. They're thought to be roughly 100 million years old (so very recent in terms of the Solar system) and may only last another 100 million years. I agree with what others have said about the raised hand on the humanoid male. (My question is why only the male?) There is also that just because life on Earth comes in two sexes, this doesn't mean life evolved on other worlds would necessarily find the concept meaningful.

I do agree with what's been said about any spacefaring species capable of finding these probes (in many millions of years) would almost certainly need language capable of accumulating the knowledge necessary and of communicating between workers involved in space projects.

Very true about advertising our presence! There is the "Dark Forest" notion that smart species do not announce their presence. But that assumes a galaxy teaming with, not just life, but hostile life. (The "Three Body" trilogy by Liu Cixin is all about this.) But there's a simple way to consider the odds of intelligent life that puts the odds at ~10²⁴ to 1. Compare this to the 10¹¹ stars in this galaxy or the 10²² stars in the visible universe, and it seems that we might be rare indeed. Odds are that we're alone in this galaxy.

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